I almost want us to lose the Ashes this year.

Firstly the scandalous dropping of Foukes completely got my gander up. No other country in the world would not pick their best keeper.

Secondly the almost corrupt retention of the woeful Crawley. Something is so fishy with this (Rob Key!)

Thirdly the recall of the utterly dreadful but loved by the cricket media of Moheen Ali. Ive never liked him. Way over played , massively under performing and like Crawley is impossible to drop. He only plays when it suits him. A ruddy disgrace.

Finally our preparation has been amateurish in the extreme. The Aussies have prepared superbly. Sending players over to play in the Championship. Playing the Test World Cup. Meanwhile we let mercenaries like Stokes, Root not bother with any first class cricket whilst they sit on their backsides on the subs bench in the IPL. Very unprofessional, and I would say arrogant.

There's very little to look forward to except hopefully Pope have a great series.

I can see Bazball backfiring big time this summer.

We can wish the Ashes without Crawley or Ali performing. After all look at last year.

I don’t like the way Pope moves about in the Crease maybe he gets away with it in the CC. But the Aussies will have something sorted out for him.

As it might be the last proper Test series before cricket dies I’d quite like to see England win, cheers.

Taking everything into account: the way the ECB have prevented players playing for counties; the arrogant "Bazball" philosophy which goes way beyond attractive cricket and strays into bastardising the essence of five-day cricket; linked to that, the equally arrogant dismissal of Foakes to make way for Bairstow; even the extortionate ticket prices charged for a day's cricket which will rarely amount to anything like 90 overs...I hope they crash and burn.

Jackers wrote:Taking everything into account: the way the ECB have prevented players playing for counties; the arrogant "Bazball" philosophy which goes way beyond attractive cricket and strays into bastardising the essence of five-day cricket; linked to that, the equally arrogant dismissal of Foakes to make way for Bairstow; even the extortionate ticket prices charged for a day's cricket which will rarely amount to anything like 90 overs...I hope they crash and burn.

Wow! Couldn't agree more. Actually I hope they are thrashed and buried in a hole filled with Bazballs. The ECB and the England set up stinks to high heaven. I wouldn't go if it were free.

"No other country in the world would not pick their best keeper"

Hmm. I have no idea who the best keeper in each country is and I'd be surprised if anyone outside that country does. Given that pretty much every international keeper is also a pretty good batsman, that rather suggests that ability behind the stumps is not the sole criterion. I suspect that every other country in the world would settle for a second best keeper if they were also an exceptional batsman. It would be amazing if England has done this on and off over the years and nobody else ever has.

Having said that, Bairstow does get bowled a lot and I have a nasty feeling that he may end up getting fewer runs than Foakes would have got.

Moeen Ali has 195 Test wickets at 37 BTW, plus averaging 29 with the bat. Not that shabby and the question that was asked when Leach went down is the same one that was asked during most of his career - if you want a spinner, who else would you pick? The lack of quality English spinners has been evident for years and is one of the reason why monumental scores are being chased down in the fourth innings once the seamers get no help.

Oh I think countries are well aware who their best keeper is. It's obvious to anyone that Foakes is head and shoulders over any one else. Countries have never found a comparable keeper to Gilchrist, and in England's case in my lifetime, Knott, Taylor and Russell. All of whom could bat.
Moeen Ali voluntarily retired from Tests. I seem to recall he was dropped after one Test against the Aussies who smashed him out of the game. I don't buy all this "I'll do it for Ben, but no one else" cringe worthy bollox. Players shouldn't be allowed to pick and choose on a whim.
I agree entirely that we do not have a spinner worthy of a Test place, and we all know the reasons for that. Steve Waugh once said that if you don't have a spinner good enough don't pick one, pick your best 11. In England's case I'd agree.
Too me the England selection for the 1st Test is looking a bit like an OAP's 11. Completely undercooked by lack of red ball cricket. Three bowlers in their late 30s/early 40s, two of which are "recovering" from injury and one who is injured and wouldn't be in the side if he wasn't captain. No Wood or Woakes? Bairstow has had  two mediocre innings since August for Yorkshire, I can't recall when Root last played who seems to have become another Bazball casualty. Brook is out of nick and the continuing saga of Crawley defies belief.
England is an Old Boys Club in both attitude and physical reality bordering on arrogance. But who knows perhaps Bazball will come off, but I doubt it.

Taylor and Russell were, by today's standards, very moderate with the bat. Certainly nowhere near Foakes's standard. In their day being the outstanding wicketkeeper counted. Before Alan Knott gave up the gloves, he was probably Taylor's equal as a wicketkeeper: only then did his superior batting tip the scales.

Chinaman wrote:Oh I think countries are well aware who their best keeper is.

Yes but I didn't argue otherwise. What I said was that people outside that country rarely know, yet here we are assuming that every other country always picks their best keeper. Was Dhoni really the best keeper in India throughout his long career? Was Gilchrist the best in Australia when he started? Wasn't Marsh a bit "iron gloves"? Of course they may improve over time once given the job, as arguably Alec Stewart did but one of the reasons they got the opportunity in the first place was their bringing something else, whether excellent batting or sheer bloody-minded attitude.

The likelihood of a mediocre batsman getting the Test job is of course greatly reduced by counties (and presumably their equivalents elsewhere) only picking keepers who are close to being worth a place at that level as a batsman. A Keith Andrew wouldn't get a county contract these days. Would an Arnold Long?

Moeen has been asked. He said yes. Blame the selectors if you like but don't blame him.

Yes but no doubt Dhoni, Gilchrist, Marsh were considered the best when they were picked for many of the reasons you give. No one in their right mind would consider Bairstow the best available or that Moeen Bloody Ali is worthy of a place. Not that he ever was in my opinion. What does that say for County Cricketers however good or bad they may be?

Chinaman wrote:Yes but no doubt Dhoni, Gilchrist, Marsh were considered the best when they were picked for many of the reasons you give.  No one in their right mind would consider Bairstow the best available or that Moeen Bloody Ali is worthy of a place. Not that he ever was in my opinion. What does that say for County Cricketers however good or bad they may be?

I'm not even sure if we are disagreeing here! Of course Dhoni was seen as the best option when first picked but why would that mean he was necessarily seen as the best keeper, rather than the best batsman-keeper?

I'm not disagreeing on Bairstow vs Foakes either but if Foakes averaged 15 with the bat it would change the balance of the argument, surely? He might not even be in the Surrey side then.

Some of Moeen's 195 Test wickets probably resulted from batsmen who didn't rate him trying to take liberties (though getting them to take liberties is itself a skill) but not all of them. You just don't get picked that often if you are not contributing. OK, unless your name is Crawley!

No I'm confused!

Chinaman wrote:No I'm confused!

Ah, Confuse-a-Chinaman. Shades of Monty Python.

Put simply, I was querying SWC's contention that every other country in the world would always choose their best keeper, which implies ignoring whether their batting average is 10 or 50. I have no idea whether Dhoni, for example, was the best keeper available to India but I doubt anyone else on this board does either! His contention might be true but instinctively I doubt it. "Always pick your best keeper" is one of those adages that seems to me to hark back to some golden age, which may never have existed anyway.

"Always pick your best keeper" is too simplistic. "Pick your best keeper so long as he is also a good batsman" is a more accurate and helpful maxim.

When Foakes averages 32 in tests, less than 5 fewer than the man who is not in his class as a wicket-keeper, the choice should not be a difficult one.

Well Adelaide, let me word it like this. Any other country if they had the best wicket keeper in the world at their disposal, they would pick him. Particularly one like Foulkes who is also very handy with the bat.
I could understand if there were two keepers of similar ability, then the best batsman would get the nod. In this case Bairstow is nowhere near as good at keeping and daftly should be in the team on his batting prowess alone and not with the gloves.
Its a cliquey club at England.Look how they persisted with Butler as test keeper, when his batting record was atrocious. Foulkes has a better record than him but struggled to force his way in to the test team.
I find it an unprofessional disgrace.

Has anyone played as many matches for England with a worse record than Moeen Ali?

60 tests averaging 36 with the ball and 28 with the bat.

129 ODIs averaging 50 with the ball and 25 with the bat.

And yet still gets picked even after confirming he can’t be bothered to play red ball cricket anymore.

Vauxhall wrote:Has anyone played as many matches for England with a worse record than Moeen Ali?

60 tests averaging 36 with the ball and 28 with the bat.

129 ODIs averaging 50 with the ball and 25 with the bat.

And yet still gets picked even after confirming he can’t be bothered to play red ball cricket anymore.

Pat Pocock 67 wickets @ 44

Fred Titmus 153 wickets @ 32, batting average 22

Ashley Giles 143 wickets @ 41, batting average 21

I understand the feeling that Moeen should not have been asked to return but if you are going to rely on the raw statistics, Moeen's record is nowhere near the worst, so why such a down on him?

For kick off Moeen Allis attitude stinks. How dare he play when only it suits him. He's been a very lucky bloke to have played so many international games. Some people just think the sun shines out of his arse (Nasser Hussain being the biggest culprit).
I wonder if him "ticking a box" has helped prolong his career. He is such an ordinary player that outside influences, in my view have to be playing a part with him.

adelaide wrote:

Vauxhall wrote:Has anyone played as many matches for England with a worse record than Moeen Ali?

60 tests averaging 36 with the ball and 28 with the bat.

129 ODIs averaging 50 with the ball and 25 with the bat.

And yet still gets picked even after confirming he can’t be bothered to play red ball cricket anymore.

Pat Pocock 67 wickets @ 44

Fred Titmus 153 wickets @ 32, batting average 22

Ashley Giles 143 wickets @ 41, batting average 21

I understand the feeling that Moeen should not have been asked to return but if you are going to rely on the raw statistics, Moeen's record is nowhere near the worst, so why such a down on him?

Titmus had a better record than Moeen Ali.

Neither Giles nor Pocock played 64 tests or 123 ODIs.

Interesting article in the Guardian today saying that the whole impetus behind Bazball is the dire state of test cricket round the world. It is intended to make Test cricket more acceptable to the T20 followers who don't really understand the long game.

That's the worst possible reason. It's a bit like the modern Church of England abandoning some of its core principles because they are desperate to get the younger generation to engage but seeing overall numbers decline because so many  believers now wonder what the point of it is!

And yet to "encourage more exciting play" the ECB have mucked around with the points in the Championship by increasing to 450 in 110 overs to get max batting points - to absolutely no avail. I think only Durham has achieved it. In this week's win we got no batting points. And really most T20 followers have neither the interest or patience for Test cricket anyway. Blimey 40 overs of slogging  is bad enough let alone 5 days. More useless crap from the ECB.

How arrogant is Ben Stokes. Two IPL innings for 15 runs. He thinks this is acceptable preparation for a test series against Australia. This is amateur hour.

England declaring what is going on?