Notes from January 2024 Forum

[VauxhallRey]

Please find below my notes of what was said at last night’s forum.  I have made them as objective as possible. I have tried to cluster together points made at different times on the same topic.  Will put my thoughts into a separate thread.  Best I could do, Hansard it isn’t.  More than happy to accommodate people’s comments on my errors and omissions.

Women’s Game (Stewart)
• Senior team will play 17 matches.
• Jonathan Batty confirmed as Head Coach.
• 180 players on U10-U18 Pathway.

Senior’s Men’s Squad (Stewart)
• Of our senior squad, 7 are in the country.
• Tom Curran injured, prognosis unclear.

Men’s Game Scheduling (Elworthy)
• Gave a description of how fixtures are put together starting with international schedule and factoring in Franchise game worldwide.
• Every “even” year, there will be a major international tournament in England (Women’s WC, Olympics, T20WC).
• Fighting hard to retain 14 Championship matches.  Counties are far from united as to when to play them.  Some want to play in August (Surrey don’t). Some don’t want games at the weekend as staff costs are higher (Surrey do).
• There will be ODIs until at least 2031.
• Clubs want blast to be spread out with as many games as possible on Thu, Fri.  Sky want the entire tournament in one block.
• Not enough space for all four competitions, it will be the 50 over game which gets marginalised.  Blast too important for Clubs’ revenues.

Professionalisation of Women’s game (Elworthy)
• There will be three tiers.  We are bidding for a tier 1 team.

Training Facilities and Outground (Slipper)
• Club needs a high quality second ground to accommodate all the cricket with the Men’s and Women’s team will be playing.
• This new ground will also have outstanding training and fitness facilities.
• “We need to monetise and commercialise our cricket.”

Infrastructure (Elworthy)
• Travelodge will be complete next month.  Already pretty fully booked over the summer.
• Still deciding what to do with “White House”.
• Archbishop Tenison’s has closed.  Examining what to do, in collaboration with the Duchy.
• Cricketer’s pub may be up for sale.
• Looking ar refurb of Bedser and JM Finn and Alec Stewart Gates.

100 (Slipper)
Situation Assessment
• Made very clear that the 100 is here to stay in the short to medium term.
• Currently brings in £50m of direct revenue pa with another £10m of sundry revenue.  This first figure likely to rise to £70m, 25% of ECB turnover.
• “Leave it as it is” doesn’t work.  100 salaries used to be in the top 1 or 2 worldwide, now more like 5th or 6th.
• We need 100 to succeed otherwise there will be a reduction in Sky revenue when it is up for renewal in 2028.

100 Restructuring
• ECB will give majority stake to hosting clubs of which they can sell some if they want.  Surrey will not be selling.  Hosting counties will have a right to veto any potential new partner, even if they win the auction.  Hosting counties all want to keep majority stakes.
• ECB will keep a minority stake, some of which they will then sell all or part.
• Likely to be 2 new teams in 2029.
• Debate being had about two division structure.
• Non hosting counties will also make more money this way.
• IPL franchises will not buy minority stakes as they want control.
* Three counties not member-owned so could be bought.


Q&A not already covered

Lots of hostility to the 100.  Slipper said that ECB & Counties tied in by Sky contract and that to break contract would cost £60m.
Slipper came under attack for his language (commercialisation, monestisation, brand and describing cricket as a product).  He was asked, as the person sitting down with the other counties and ECB, whether he could be trusted to safeguard the Championship.  He said very robustly that 14 games were here to stay and that he would be lobbying hard for Championship games every month.  Asked to confirm 14 games, he was absolutely clear that 14 games is a red line for him.

There was quite a bit of applause for someone praising the 100 as being more exciting cricket.

Asked about retention of the new people brought to cricket by the 100, Slipper said that the Club sold 125k tickets for the 5 games.  Didn’t have the retention figures but promised to supply them.

Question about bad language and drunkenness at Blast and some 100 games.  Elworthy said that were expanding alcohol-free zones, selling 0% beer and booting out offenders.

Surrey sold 20% of all county and international tickets.

Asked about the lack of Virdi, Stewart said that this was largely a function of the championship being played at the start and end of the season.  Virdi needed to improve to force himself into the side.  Pointed out that we had won back-to-back Championships with Jacks.

Question about Surrey players now prioritising franchise ahead of their own clubs.  Stewart said that some players were being paid £30-40k for a single T20 game which Surrey can’t match.  When they come back to play for the club, they would do so under our terms.

Oval most expensive test ground (even Lord’s). New brewery is coming on board (still with draught and members’ discounts), but what with the London Living Wage rising by 10%, inflation was very high.

[Wokoval]

Nice to meet you. Many thanks a very good summary, quite a bit of ground was covered. I’m glad you were taking notes!. Duchy Suite is quite big and the forum was well attended. I look forward to hearing your thoughts, I came home feeling a bit depressed if I’m honest. The game is in a sorry state. Good that you made clear that 14 championship games is a red line, it is the main thing for me. No decisions have been made yet. Hope somebody reports back from the second forum.

[kjb]

Many thanks for the summary.
It seems that like other sports, money is now the driving force and only the non FTA TV companies are the ones that will pay sufficiently.

Such a pity that cricket has been allowed to sink to this level rather than rise.

[MatthewC]

I thought the below points were very interesting: -

• Fighting hard to retain 14 Championship matches. Counties are far from united as to when to play them. Some want to play in August (Surrey don’t). Some don’t want games at the weekend as staff costs are higher (Surrey do).

I've long suspected that a number of (probably smaller) counties would prefer to keep Championship cricket midweek, partially as for them the increased crowds at weekends end up costing them more. I also suspect that many counties have a membership made up of 80%+ retirees, who prefer weekday cricket.

Looking at the makeup of attendance in the Pavilion, I imagine Surrey probably have the on average the youngest membership in the country (which I would assume is influenced by being in almost-Central London).

• Clubs want blast to be spread out with as many games as possible on Thu, Fri. Sky want the entire tournament in one block.

My preference would be for Thurs/Fri night blast throughout the season, with Championship games starting Fri/Sat. Tuesday evening (and even Sunday afternoon) games seem a waste and leaving a lot of potential revenue on the table. A shame that Sky wish to condense it.

[Steve]

Thanks for the notes very interesting. Was anything said about overseas players for this season?

[VauxhallRey]

No.

[VicNorth]

"There was quite a bit of applause for someone praising the 100 as being more exciting cricket."

Depressing to hear this

[VicNorth]

Where were 'Real Wall' when we needed them?

[optimistnot]

Please find below my notes of what was said at last night’s forum.  I have made them as objective as possible. I have tried to cluster together points made at different times on the same topic.  Will put my thoughts into a separate thread.  Best I could do, Hansard it isn’t.  More than happy to accommodate people’s comments on my errors and omissions.

Women’s Game (Stewart)
• Senior team will play 17 matches.
• Jonathan Batty confirmed as Head Coach.
• 180 players on U10-U18 Pathway.

Senior’s Men’s Squad (Stewart)
• Of our senior squad, 7 are in the country.
• Tom Curran injured, prognosis unclear.

Men’s Game Scheduling (Elworthy)
• Gave a description of how fixtures are put together starting with international schedule and factoring in Franchise game worldwide.
• Every “even” year, there will be a major international tournament in England (Women’s WC, Olympics, T20WC).
• Fighting hard to retain 14 Championship matches.  Counties are far from united as to when to play them.  Some want to play in August (Surrey don’t). Some don’t want games at the weekend as staff costs are higher (Surrey do).
• There will be ODIs until at least 2031.
• Clubs want blast to be spread out with as many games as possible on Thu, Fri.  Sky want the entire tournament in one block.
• Not enough space for all four competitions, it will be the 50 over game which gets marginalised.  Blast too important for Clubs’ revenues.

Professionalisation of Women’s game (Elworthy)
• There will be three tiers.  We are bidding for a tier 1 team.

Training Facilities and Outground (Slipper)
• Club needs a high quality second ground to accommodate all the cricket with the Men’s and Women’s team will be playing.
• This new ground will also have outstanding training and fitness facilities.
• “We need to monetise and commercialise our cricket.”

Infrastructure (Elworthy)
• Travelodge will be complete next month.  Already pretty fully booked over the summer.
• Still deciding what to do with “White House”.
• Archbishop Tenison’s has closed.  Examining what to do, in collaboration with the Duchy.
• Cricketer’s pub may be up for sale.
• Looking ar refurb of Bedser and JM Finn and Alec Stewart Gates.

100 (Slipper)
Situation Assessment
• Made very clear that the 100 is here to stay in the short to medium term.
• Currently brings in £50m of direct revenue pa with another £10m of sundry revenue.  This first figure likely to rise to £70m, 25% of ECB turnover.
• “Leave it as it is” doesn’t work.  100 salaries used to be in the top 1 or 2 worldwide, now more like 5th or 6th.
• We need 100 to succeed otherwise there will be a reduction in Sky revenue when it is up for renewal in 2028.

100 Restructuring
• ECB will give majority stake to hosting clubs of which they can sell some if they want.  Surrey will not be selling.  Hosting counties will have a right to veto any potential new partner, even if they win the auction.  Hosting counties all want to keep majority stakes.
• ECB will keep a minority stake, some of which they will then sell all or part.
• Likely to be 2 new teams in 2029.
• Debate being had about two division structure.
• Non hosting counties will also make more money this way.
• IPL franchises will not buy minority stakes as they want control.


Q&A not already covered

Lots of hostility to the 100.  Slipper said that ECB & Counties tied in by Sky contract and that to break contract would cost £60m.
Slipper came under attack for his language (commercialisation, monestisation, brand and describing cricket as a product).  He was asked, as the person sitting down with the other counties and ECB, whether he could be trusted to safeguard the Championship.  He said very robustly that 14 games were here to stay and that he would be lobbying hard for Championship games every month.  Asked to confirm 14 games, he was absolutely clear that 14 games is a red line for him.

There was quite a bit of applause for someone praising the 100 as being more exciting cricket.

Asked about retention of the new people brought to cricket by the 100, Slipper said that the Club sold 125k tickets for the 5 games.  Didn’t have the retention figures but promised to supply them.

Question about bad language and drunkenness at Blast and some 100 games.  Elworthy said that were expanding alcohol-free zones, selling 0% beer and booting out offenders.

Surrey sold 20% of all county and international tickets.

Asked about the lack of Virdi, Stewart said that this was largely a function of the championship being played at the start and end of the season.  Virdi needed to improve to force himself into the side.  Pointed out that we had won back-to-back Championships with Jacks.

Question about Surrey players now prioritising franchise ahead of their own clubs.  Stewart said that some players were being paid £30-40k for a single T20 game which Surrey can’t match.  When they come back to play for the club, they would do so under our terms.

Oval most expensive test ground (even Lord’s). New brewery is coming on board (still with draught and members’ discounts), but what with the London Living Wage rising by 10%, inflation was very high.

Slipper pointed out 3000,000 tickets for cricket across the counties sold last season and Surrey sold 600,000 of them.
When it came to the IPL Franchises he did accept that there are 3 counties that are not owned by the membership that could be bought.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

In this day and age what utter cobblers of an excuse for not having weekend championship games. This is a made up excuse. With the money in cricket these days it should be a priority that as many games as possible are played at weekends. Surely additional tickets, food and drink sales would more than cover additional costs.

[VicNorth]

"... there are 3 counties that are not owned by the membership that could be bought."

Northampton might not be the type of venue they are looking for?

[kjb]

I'm not sure if you are aware that crowds during the week are about the same as those attending at the weekend; obviously, they are not the same people but the totals are similar.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be matches on at either times but I don't believe there's a big difference which would mean no additional sales.

[adelaide]

If Graves gets his mitts back on Yorkshire, his next move will be to seek to take the county away from the membership. Ah, you say, the members won't be turkeys voting for Christmas but if it is painted as essential for the survival of the club they might do so (after all, the lack of alternatives is precisely why the county is letting Graves back in the door in the first place).

So that would presumably a fourth county not owned by the membership - and a particularly important one at that.

[VauxhallRey]

Slipper pointed out 3000,000 tickets for cricket across the counties sold last season and Surrey sold 600,000 of them.

Thank you, have amended the 3 counties not owned point, but my notes suggest that it was not just county games but international tickets as well. (Though I could well be wrong.)

[Chinaman]

I'm not sure if you are aware that crowds during the week are about the same as those attending at the weekend; obviously, they are not the same people but the totals are similar.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be matches on at either times but I don't believe there's a big difference which would mean no additional sales.

Exactly. Also there is little point in weekend Championship cricket, particularly Saturday's, which is the least attended day, on any match before June. Why? Because people are going to football. After that not a problem, apart from the fact there is hardly any bar the odd Sunday. Again why? All the T20 and 100 nonsense.

[optimistnot]

With regard to players Stewart indicated that Jason Roy and Tom Curran are our players on 12 month contracts, but they will be paid for the games they play for us only I am happy to be corrected, but that is what he seemed to be saying they will still be looked after by the club for fitness and injury.

[Peter.M.Gardens]

I'm not sure if you are aware that crowds during the week are about the same as those attending at the weekend; obviously, they are not the same people but the totals are similar.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be matches on at either times but I don't believe there's a big difference which would mean no additional sales.

Exactly. Also there is little point in weekend Championship cricket, particularly Saturday's, which is the least attended day, on any match before June. Why? Because people are going to football. After that not a problem, apart from the fact there is hardly any bar the odd Sunday. Again why? All the T20 and 100 nonsense.

Is that really true? presumably less members turn up at weekends? The club have their data and know the numbers and seem to think weekend cricket is financially better? Ultimately if the members want midweek cricket that should be the major deciding factor when scheduling county games, seems to be the case at most counties, perhaps other counties prioritise their members wishes more?

[RB]

Jason Roy and Tom Curran are our players on 12 month contracts, but they will be paid for the games they play for us

Is this not a contradiction in terms? Surely they have to be on a 12-month retainer?

(As Stewie said on Sky last year, this is a hangover from 2000, when county players' contracts became 12-month rather than 6-month.)

[Chinaman]

I'm not sure if you are aware that crowds during the week are about the same as those attending at the weekend; obviously, they are not the same people but the totals are similar.
I'm not saying there shouldn't be matches on at either times but I don't believe there's a big difference which would mean no additional sales.

Exactly. Also there is little point in weekend Championship cricket, particularly Saturday's, which is the least attended day, on any match before June. Why? Because people are going to football. After that not a problem, apart from the fact there is hardly any bar the odd Sunday. Again why? All the T20 and 100 nonsense.

Is that really true? presumably less members turn up at weekends? The club have their data and know the numbers and seem to think weekend cricket is financially better? Ultimately if the members want midweek cricket that should be the major deciding factor when scheduling county games, seems to be the case at most counties, perhaps other counties prioritise their members wishes more?

Some years ago I read that Saturdays were poorly attended. But if you go, just look, it's always less. Indeed a first day in the week is often the busiest. But of course weekend cricket is good if you work Mon to Fri.

[VauxhallRey]

UPDATE FROM FEB 1st FORUM

I have not bothered to repeat everything which was already in my previous notes.  I could not hear the questions so have done my best to interpret.

That said, Elworthy and Slipper reaffirmed Surrey's commitment to a 14-game Championship.  He also said that they had identified the place where they want to put the out ground.  He did not divulge where this was.

Elworthy

The first XI do not want to play County Cricket at Guildford due to the nature of the pitches and the size of the boundary.  We lose about 3,000 supporters for every 50 over game due to the available seating.  Cannot rule it out as a venue in the interim before the out ground.

Whitgift even less likely to get a game.

We voted against hybrid pitches and Kookaburra balls.

Looking to improve PA in the pavilion.

Looking to have ways to carve out 100 supporters from emailings.

On average 4,000 members attended each of the 100 games.

They will look at getting the Oval beer festival back.

Questioner wanted to be able to use unoccupied GC seats.

Longer queues at food stalls at 100 and Women's games, being addressed.

Noted that retail range worse than other clubs, being addressed.

Discussing reserved seating for the Blast and 100 games which have a large walk-up.  Quite a few non-members getting into Members' Areas, plus Members using other Members' cards to get their friends in.  Looking at potential chipped or Facial ID cards.


Slipper

Much more on message than the first forum.  Much more passion about red ball and cricket in general. Much less feisty audience.

Strauss report "was all about the England team and screw the counties".

ECB is about 8-10% of our revenue, but about a third of about 8 counties'.

Two Richards very focussed on decentralisation of decision-making to counties.

Promise of regular discussion with Members about any decisions made.  Another Members' Forum in six weeks.

The assumption is that the 100 is here to stay beyond 2028 in some form or another.

Someone asked whether Members could force club to exit 100.  Answer was that that decision lies with General Committee, elected by the members.  Assumption is that GC will retain control of 100 team because we will retaib 51%

Person who spoke up for 100 got a round of applause.

Surrey born and bred, youth, had a second team contract for 18 months.  Played a few games for Weybridge 3s and 4s last summer.

Ensuring the future of red ball while making the most of white ball.  The red ball game needs the white ball game to survive.

ECB likely to schedule more ODIs in the run-up to the 50 over World Cups, they won't rely on the domestic game.

All the test boards beyond BCCI should get together to try to set up some rules of the road about availability for "home" clubs for IPL contracted players.

Honours committee will be getting together to decide how to honour Keith Booth.

[Badges]

Discussing reserved seating for the Blast and 100 games which have a large walk-up.  Quite a few non-members getting into Members' Areas, plus Members using other Members' cards to get their friends in.  Looking at potential chipped or Facial ID cards.


So what ? The Membership has been paid for.This has been going on since time began.I remember at school in 1966 a bloke who was going on holiday for a month gave me his Chelsea season ticket.

I've never heard of anyone being challenged at Cricket or Football over this.

[VauxhallRey]

I had understood that my seat for life was my seat, but apparently not.

[Badges]

I've virtually given up on T20 as i like to sit in the Bedser covered and the hooligan/gestapo staff won't let me.There are ALWAYS scores if not hundreds of empty seats.

I wrote to Steve Elworthy and also collared him at a game.He wrote a nice reply to my letter and was very nice to talk to.He assured me both verbally and in writing that i could have what i think he called a "non value" ticket to get in there.

The result? When i asked the office for said ticket i got refused.

[VicNorth]

Wikipedia says he was born in Slough.

[guildfordbat]

UPDATE FROM FEB 1st FORUM

...
Elworthy
...

Looking to have ways to carve out 100 supporters from emailings.

...

Thanks for the further update, VauxhallRey.

Probably small beer in the scheme of things but what's that about and mean? Cheers.

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