Re: Guildford tomorrow

by RightArmSlow Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:31 am

Jackers wrote:
RightArmSlow wrote:
offdrive4 wrote:An interesting question for the forum would be the attitude Surrey take to the likely attempt to ease the fixture congestion by reducing the championship to 10 matches. The conferences of 6 counties anyone? There would be no question of expanding the hundred to take advantage of the spare days of course, not much.

I reckon what will happen is a top tier of 6 teams (of which two get relegated) and 2 semi - regionalised 2nd divisions with one team promoted from each. That way each county is only one promotion away from top tier cricket. Reduces the number of games slightly (and removes the farcical situation we have this year where we aren't playing everyone twice and they happen to be the other 2 teams in the top 3). the only problem is that the boundaries of the north/south regionalised leagues will vary a fair bit over time.

I don't think I would be against that to be honest. the schedule is mad and something needs to give. Even if there was no 100 the schedule would still be too packed. Looking at what other countries setups look like they play less but higher quality first class cricket. I think 10 games is a good amount.

Ideally this would go along with the scrapping of the 100 and the revamping of the blast. But we know that wont happen.

10 games? Just no. Those matches would be scheduled for April, early May and September, meaning that there would be months of summer without any championship cricket, no outgrounds, and the outcome would be much more of a lottery dependant on the weather and availability. If you are going to start to declutter the schedule, scrap one of the two short-form competitions, allow the counties to compete in the remaining one, and reduce the number of internationals.

Obviously the timing of those games is a separate issue. I would want them throughout the season not pushed to the extremes.

I also said I want the 100 scrapped and the blast revamped (shorter). But the ECB wont do that.

For me open the season with the 50 (or 40) over comp with a lords final. 10 champ games across the season with a shortened revamped blast in the height of summer with all the gimmicks you could desire. That would be the happy medium for me keeps the players happy by making the schedule manageable, plenty of cricket for fans and in the right parts of the summer, keep the quality up and would still allow us a top class short format competition. Along with a reduction in international white ball fixtures (much more focused on world cups and champ trophy's and their build-ups rather than bi-lats. This for me is an ideal situation.

by Chinaman Thu Aug 04, 2022 10:57 am

I would seriously doubt I'd renew my Championship Membership for effectively 5 home games, definitely not if one was at Guildford, and a basically 2nd 11 ODC.
Now 16 CC games playing all home and away would really enthuse me. Once you reduce your at the thin end of the wedge.

by RightArmSlow Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:15 am

Chinaman wrote:I would seriously doubt I'd renew my Championship Membership for effectively 5 home games, definitely not if one was at Guildford, and a basically 2nd 11 ODC.
Now 16 CC games playing all home and away would really enthuse me. Once you reduce your at the thin end of the wedge.

Thin end of the wedge is the line people spout when they dont have a coherent argument.

Each to their own, its not all about championship cricket. For me that scenario would be the best middle ground to please everyone but wont happen because of the 100. Again what i outlined as an ideal had the 100 going and the 50 over as a first team comp.

by kjb Thu Aug 04, 2022 11:45 am

Just because some levels of membership include the Hundread it isn't a Surrey team or match. It's owned by the ECB because they want more money and more power.
The CC is the route for players to become Test match standard; a pity that Strauss, Bob the Builder Key and others seem to forget how they reached that level. With fewer 4 day matches, the quality would drop significantly.
If there were only 10 CC matches, 5 at home, then I think MANY members, including myself, would not renew because it won't be value for money.
If you're asking for a coherent argument what was wrong with 2 divisions of 9, play 16 matches?
Who else is going to play the franchise game of 16.2?

by RB Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:04 pm

RightArmSlow wrote:
offdrive4 wrote:An interesting question for the forum would be the attitude Surrey take to the likely attempt to ease the fixture congestion by reducing the championship to 10 matches. The conferences of 6 counties anyone? There would be no question of expanding the hundred to take advantage of the spare days of course, not much.

I reckon what will happen is a top tier of 6 teams (of which two get relegated) and 2 semi - regionalised 2nd divisions with one team promoted from each. That way each county is only one promotion away from top tier cricket. Reduces the number of games slightly (and removes the farcical situation we have this year where we aren't playing everyone twice and they happen to be the other 2 teams in the top 3). the only problem is that the boundaries of the north/south regionalised leagues will vary a fair bit over time.

I don't think I would be against that to be honest. the schedule is mad and something needs to give. Even if there was no 100 the schedule would still be too packed. Looking at what other countries setups look like they play less but higher quality first class cricket. I think 10 games is a good amount.

Ideally this would go along with the scrapping of the 100 and the revamping of the blast. But we know that wont happen.

It’s a bit reminiscent of the BUCS Cricket League but I don’t think that’s a particularly bad idea of 6x1 and a “split” Div2.

by RightArmSlow Thu Aug 04, 2022 12:27 pm

kjb wrote:Just because some levels of membership include the Hundread it isn't a Surrey team or match. It's owned by the ECB because they want more money and more power.
The CC is the route for players to become Test match standard; a pity that Strauss, Bob the Builder Key and others seem to forget how they reached that level. With fewer 4 day matches, the quality would drop significantly.
If there were only 10 CC matches, 5 at home, then I think MANY members, including myself, would not renew because it won't be value for money.
If you're asking for a coherent argument what was wrong with 2 divisions of 9, play 16 matches?
Who else is going to play the franchise game of 16.2?

Works for india and Australia. They play much less first class cricket but of a much higher quality and still produce plenty of world class test players. So there is no evidence that the quality would drop significantly. In fact with the concentration of a smaller top division the argument is that the quality would increase.

What was wrong with it? it put too much pressure on the schedule even before the 100 was introduced. In the same way that the T20 blast goes on for too long with too many games and too many dead rubbers so puts too much pressure on the schedule and prevents top class overseas from joining.

As I said my ideal solution open the season with the 50 (or 40) over comp with a lords final. 10 champ games across the season with a shortened revamped blast in the height of summer with all the gimmicks you could desire. Along with a reduction in international white ball fixtures much more focused on world cups and champ trophy's and their build-ups rather than bi-lats.

It reduces the pressure on the schedule, keeps the quality of the first class cricket high and gives us a strong short format competition without cutting out the counties. That for me is realistic as a way forward and is better than the head in the sand "I want 16 first class games because I like it" arguments that completely miss the big picture.

by RB Thu Aug 04, 2022 1:10 pm

The problem is ultimately that money matters and the counties cannot afford to lose any T20 matches because of the amount of revenue they bring in, particularly for the “lesser” counties (financially speaking) such as Northamptonshire.

I agree - as does Michael Atherton - that if we are to play a competition concurrent with the dreaded Hundred then we should have 3 rounds of Championship cricket during this period. County Championship cricket at outgrounds in the height of summer is going to make some members virtually aroused at the prospect. Furthermore, given the increasing schism of players between red ball and white ball cricket it makes much more sense.

Our top order would be the same that we put out during the New Zealand Tests and Netherlands vs England ODIs. Burns, Patel, Amla, Geddes… that’s a lineup I want playing 4-day cricket and not 50-over cricket.

That way - other than the T20 Blast window in June which makes complete sense to attract overseas options and so on - you will have a continuous period of Championship cricket between May and September. Putting the One Day Cup at the start of the season, as it was in 2017-19, makes perfect sense. On top of this, the IPL would have players missing white ball for white ball, which is helpful to those players with one eye on the Test team and not having to choose as it would allow them to have their payday with their conscience clear.

Then, arguments over the Championship’s future would be less about fixture congestion and more about quality.

In my view:

April - mid May: One Day Cup
May-June: Championship
July: T20 Blast
August: Hundred / Championship
September: Championship

by optimistnot Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:20 pm

RB wrote:The problem is ultimately that money matters and the counties cannot afford to lose any T20 matches because of the amount of revenue they bring in, particularly for the “lesser” counties (financially speaking) such as Northamptonshire.

I agree - as does Michael Atherton - that if we are to play a competition concurrent with the dreaded Hundred then we should have 3 rounds of Championship cricket during this period. County Championship cricket at outgrounds in the height of summer is going to make some members virtually aroused at the prospect. Furthermore, given the increasing schism of players between red ball and white ball cricket it makes much more sense.

Our top order would be the same that we put out during the New Zealand Tests and Netherlands vs England ODIs. Burns, Patel, Amla, Geddes… that’s a lineup I want playing 4-day cricket and not 50-over cricket.

That way - other than the T20 Blast window in June which makes complete sense to attract overseas options and so on - you will have a continuous period of Championship cricket between May and September. Putting the One Day Cup at the start of the season, as it was in 2017-19, makes perfect sense. On top of this, the IPL would have players missing white ball for white ball, which is helpful to those players with one eye on the Test team and not having to choose as it would allow them to have their payday with their conscience clear.

Then, arguments over the Championship’s future would be less about fixture congestion and more about quality.
Then you want to handicap Surrey even more than the England call ups do for the county Championship.
Oh yes and play into the hands of those who would like to reduce it to a six team competition.
As they would point to the lack of the best players playing each other in the competition during the period of the hundred.

In my view:

April - mid May: One Day Cup
May-June: Championship
July: T20 Blast
August: Hundred / Championship
September: Championship

by Chinaman Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:30 pm

The problem is that too many people assume the 100 is here to stay. If last night's crap was anything to go by, together with a huge panning across social media it will be lucky to last till next season. The main two star players have bailed, Stokes and YJB and I wouldn't be surprised if more follow. TV contracts or not if attendances drop, and last night for the opener was half full, it's doomed. The best way out of this is a breakaway from the ECB and the Counties forming their own Governing Body that at least would love cricket rather than money. August, a second Division ODC, no Championship games at all all to enable this rubbish to continue come what may. It's an appalling state of affairs and reducing the Championship won't solve the problem. Don't give these bastards any more ammunition to further wreck the game.

by RB Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:00 pm

The Hundred is locked in until 2028, sadly. The broadcasters (Sky and the BBC) would sue the ECB for breach of contract otherwise.

by cricketman Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:43 am

The answer is simple, MOVE THE HUNDRED TO OCTOBER.

by Chinaman Fri Aug 05, 2022 8:02 am

RB wrote:The Hundred is locked in until 2028, sadly. The broadcasters (Sky and the BBC) would sue the ECB for breach of contract otherwise.

Well maybe, but if it starts going down the pan as it might, they would probably arrive at some sort of agreement to distance themselves from the sorry circus. The one thing broadcasters don't want is to televise empty grounds, contract or not.

by Badges Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:38 am

This year is my 57th season of going to The Oval and other grounds.The way i feel at the moment i don't think there will be a 58th.

by Chinaman Fri Aug 05, 2022 9:43 am

Badges wrote:This year is my 57th season of going to The Oval and other grounds.The way i feel at the moment i don't think there will be a 58th.

Well let's hope not. And if we win the Championship I'm sure it'll give you a boost. You never know we might even win the ODC! Probably being far to optimistic but it's a funny game. Cricket seems to have a way of surviving crisis, let's not let the 100 and the ECB win.

by Badges Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:04 am

Chinaman wrote:
Badges wrote:This year is my 57th season of going to The Oval and other grounds.The way i feel at the moment i don't think there will be a 58th.

Well let's hope not. And if we win the Championship I'm sure it'll give you a boost. You never know we might even win the ODC! Probably being far to optimistic but it's a funny game. Cricket seems to have a way of surviving crisis, let's not let the 100 and the ECB win.

I cannot get my head round the fact that when Surrey are playing a game several of our players are off playing for somebody else,unless of course it's England.A County Cricketer who also represents England is earning a very good living and there are tournaments to play in that don't clash with our English season.The aussie tournament for one.

by kjb Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:07 am

It's called GREED!

by Badges Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:14 am

I had cause to look up the Cricketer Mujeeb Ur Rahman yesterday to check which English County he had represented.At 21 years of age he has played for EIGHTEEN different teams.

by Badges Fri Aug 05, 2022 10:26 am

Jamie Smith who scored 234* earlier this season and Ben Geddes who made 124 last time out cannot get a game.They are local lads who play for Sutton and Ashtead respectively.

Meanwhile a 39 year old Hashim Amla who has played for half a dozen Counties is still in our team.

Virdi,who played every game when we won it in 2018 cannot get a look in.

by KeninWestWickham Fri Aug 05, 2022 1:07 pm

cricketman wrote:The answer is simple, MOVE THE HUNDRED TO OCTOBER.

Better still, December!

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