Yorkshire CCC - what a disgrace

Rafiq vindictively going after Gary Ballance after they fell out as friends.

Disgracefully dragging Joe Root in to it and saying he’s disappointed just because Root didn’t witness any racism.

Hopefully he is held to the same standards which he seemingly holds others too.

The bloke is a hypocritical bellend.


https://www.wionews.com/sports/ex-cricketer-azeem-rafiq-accused-of-sending-creepy-and-vulgar-texts-to-teenage-girl-six-years-ago-report-430838

Well if that's true this guy is a right head case. Perhaps everyone will stop their groveling apologies.

Here we go. Rafiq is a fair way short of sainthood so that justifies anything said to him (and to all the other South Asians now contacting the ECB helpline or whatever it is). It is also quite a good way of putting off any whistleblower about anything if their past is going to be crawled over.

The point is that a complaint was made to Yorkshire several years ago about continual racist behaviour "in the workplace" so as to speak and Yorkshire did nothing about it, which no employer should do. A few years later the player goes public out of frustration. A report claims it was mainly banter and is widely seen as not credible. A few more weeks and individuals get named, which would surely not have happened if it had been treated properly in the first place, or even in the second. It doesn't matter whether the complainant has feet of clay; you just can't stick your head in the sand.

I hope that the view underlying these recent posts is not that this is all just banter and we can carry on as before. If the p-word is just banter (and some of the other accusations made are worse) would the same privilege be extended to the n-word?

Frustration or not this bloke was interviewed by MPs for almost 2 days and did not once mention the tweet or these texts. Why? Maybe he went public out of frustration, but that implies being honest which he clearly isn't. Ok he's put his hands up now which others didn't but would he have done so if this had not come out of the woodwork? I doubt it. Double standards. You can't have this both ways.

I don't think going public out of frustration implies honesty. If it did most organisational wrongdoing would never get exposed

Rafiq's misdemeanours did not take place in a work environment. What was said and done to him was. At a personal level you are right that we should be even-handed but that should not be used to underplay the incompetence and pig-headedness of the county or what is emerging more generally about professional cricket

adelaide wrote:Here we go. Rafiq is a fair way short of sainthood so that justifies anything said to him (and to all the other South Asians now contacting the ECB helpline or whatever it is). It is also quite a good way of putting off any whistleblower about anything if their past is going to be crawled over.

The point is that a complaint was made to Yorkshire several years ago about continual racist behaviour "in the workplace" so as to speak and Yorkshire did nothing about it, which no employer should do. A few years later the player goes public out of frustration. A report claims it was mainly banter and is widely seen as not credible. A few more weeks and individuals get named, which would surely not have happened if it had been treated properly in the first place, or even in the second. It doesn't matter whether the complainant has feet of clay; you just can't stick your head in the sand.

I hope that the view underlying these recent posts is not that this is all just banter and we can carry on as before. If the p-word is just banter (and some of the other accusations made are worse) would the same privilege be extended to the n-word?

Surely if Rafiq tries to damage people’s credibility e.g. with the baseless accusation about Hales’ dog, then he should expect his to be damaged as well by his own logic?

Surely he encouraged the whistleblower to come forward detailing her experiences with his creepy sexual texts - that’s a good thing right? Unless it’s somehow not as bad when Rafiq behaves poorly.

Vauxhall
Baseless accusation about Hales's dog? Hmm .. Kevin is such a common name for a dog.

Rafiq has got stick for his posts/tweets, as he should. Are you suggesting though that this means that we should just forget about what he has said, including the parts that YCCC accept?

There are a couple of people in here who know everything.It is a waste of time talking to them.

The trouble now is that this stinks of double standards. Whether Yorkshire CC, Balance, Vaughan,Hales or Uncle Tom Cobly are guilty or not it obviously needed investigating by the ECB which they refused to do because "it was up to the club to sort it out". So everyone has now made groveling apologies for things most did as silly teenagers, and yet Rafiq chose not to tell the inquiry until the tweets and teenage girls come out to play. Whatever your view that's as bad as anything any other party has or might of done. I repeat once again there are no winners here.

adelaide wrote:Vauxhall
Baseless accusation about Hales's dog? Hmm .. Kevin is such a common name for a dog.

Rafiq has got stick for his posts/tweets, as he should. Are you suggesting though that this means that we should just forget about what he has said, including the parts that YCCC accept?

It’s actually got to the point where you can’t name your dog a simple human name

I agree with Chinaman that there no winners in this right now, though I would hope that the change in behaviour that should result will eventually be to everyone's benefit.

What I am still unclear about is whether Chinaman and Vauxhall think this whole thing should have been swept under the carpet, or even that there was no issue with what certain players did (as experienced pros, not as teenagers) in the first place.

adelaide wrote:I agree with Chinaman that there no winners in this right now, though I would hope that the change in behaviour that should result will eventually be to everyone's benefit.

What I am still unclear about is whether Chinaman and Vauxhall think this whole thing should have been swept under the carpet, or even that there was no issue with what certain players did (as experienced pros, not as teenagers) in the first place.

When did I ever say that or even imply it?

All I stated is that Rafiq is a hypocritical bellend. You can’t publicly damage people’s reputation based on hearsay and not expect the same in return if you’ve previously been a racist creep in the past.

adelaide wrote:I agree with Chinaman that there no winners in this right now, though I would hope that the change in behaviour that should result will eventually be to everyone's benefit.

What I am still unclear about is whether Chinaman and Vauxhall think this whole thing should have been swept under the carpet, or even that there was no issue with what certain players did (as experienced pros, not as teenagers) in the first place.

Well no I think it should have been investigated fully and the ECB should act like a Governing Body. There are issues here with more senior players of course who should know better, Rafiq being one of them. But we don't live in a perfect world, and sports dressing rooms have never been very PC at the best of times as anyone whose played sport at any level will know. And we really need to refine "racism". Calling a dog Kevin or saying "you lot" might not be very nice but it's not racist, it's picking up people on the slightest slip of the tounge to justify a particular belief, and it certainly shouldn't hang over someone's promising career for ten years+. Who hasn't got a, skeleton in the cupboard? Some people should utilise their time in a more proactive way perhaps.
Real racism? Think Nazi Getmany, Bosnia and an assortment of tin pot African Republics. Thank God we are a million miles away from that.

Chinaman

The horrors that you mention at the end typically arise from populist politicians exploiting small scale prejudice, which seems to me a pretty good reason to challenge non-genocidai racism when it raises its head. If it gets challenged in dressing rooms in the future, so much the better. It seems to have been endemic at Yorkshire and it is hardly surprising that a player seemingly subjected to this on an everyday basis should start to see any perceived slight as racist.

In this situation you would expect the employer to have first dibs at sorting it out in any other profession. The ECB may no have covered itself with glory but the mess is primarily down to Yorkshire.
The Kevin thing and the "you lot" remark (if it happened) don't seem that innocent to me but we'll just have to differ on that.

Vauxhall - no, you didn't say or imply that but nor did you say or imply the opposite (and strictly speaking you still haven't). I have seen a number of posts on other forums which make the same point about Rafiq's hypocrisy and their other posts make clear that they think the whole thing should have been dismissed out of hand. If you don't think that, fine

Adelaide:
"Small scale prejudice?" Nazi Germany? Blimey, I'm surprised you think that.
If by a player you mean Rafiq we've only his word that he was subject to anything on an everyday basis, and I wouldn't believe a thing he says after what he chose to hide.  There is something else going on here, despite what it seems if indeed it  happened to the degree that he said. And you're right in that without a proper investigation we probably will never know.

I thought it obvious that I was saying that Naziism and the like don't just come out of nowhere. If the small scale is not challenged you are vulnerable to the exploiters who want to take you to the limit I have read accounts to the effect that Jews felt safer in Germany than anywhere else till the early 1930s though no doubt there was everyday anti-Semitism to cope with.
I think we know enough from the improper investigation to know quite a lot went on so, no, I don't take Rafiq's failure to remember/mention tweets as a teenager or the plane incident as indicating lack of truthfulness on the wider issues. At least he hasn't done a Ballance and used the banter defence.

It's a ridiculous comparison, Naziiism with dressing room banter or otherwise. You can't use racism as an excuse for every comment or jibe.  Strange that usually it doesn't work in reverse either.
And how do we actually know what was said or implied? From Rafiq, hypocritical and who is part of the problem ?

Chinaman
What is ridiculous is to suggest that I made any such comparison. My point was that the Nazis didn't develop in a vacuum and letting these things fester provides fertile soil for tomorrow's horrors to take root.

It is the other side of the argument that is seeking to excuse jibes as banter. For what it is worth I don't see every example quoted by Rafiq as racist. The Williamson recruitment allegation seems bizarre, for example, but I can see how a long history of abuse could lead to a kind of paranoia.

Of course racism can apply both ways and I find the idea that it only works one way, er, racist It may be a lot worse being got at by a majority that historically been "on top" than being in that majority being got at by a minority but it is still racism.
We now have a wave of broadly similar allegations from others around the country which surely adds credibility to what Rafiq has said.

Finally, hypocrite or not, it has taken a good deal of bravery to make the allegations and persist against all the dismissive reactions, knowing that your past would be crawled over. That actually makes me more inclined to believe that he is broadly accurate. Jumping on his undoubted flaws to throw doubt on the whole issue just seems to me like throwing out the baby with the bathwater and uncomfortably close to the initial reaction from YCCC which has left us with individuals exposed.

Your actually doing exactly what I have been on about. A hint there that maybe I have racist tendencies? Hope not.
Much like Covid19 time to agree to disagree on this.
End of discussion for me before it becomes more than a sensible discussion..

PLEASE GO AWAY.THIS IS GETTING WORSE THAN THE OTHER BOARD .........................

THIS IS A SITE FOR SURREY CCC SUPPORTERS FFS.




Come On The 'Rey! - Surrey Cricket

Badges wrote:PLEASE GO AWAY.THIS IS GETTING WORSE THAN THE OTHER BOARD .........................

Agreed hence end of discussion for me.

Don't see where or how I have accused you of racism, Chinaman. We have different views on how to deal with it perhaps. Happy to leave it there.

Bit of a clearout today then...

Certainly the best thing in the circs. Yorkshire needed to wipe their slate clean first in order to move forward, and as such it was the only sensible and proper course of action available to them. If they are serious about improving conditions and genuinely intent on ending their empty platitudes, a clear out of those culpable for sustaining the previous regime and atmosphere at the club is essential.

The departing staff have even been allowed the dignity of being officially described as having all "resigned", which I suppose is better for them, even if we know full well they've actually been given the toe end of a large boot.